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Evidence record

Why does the Christian Bible contain someone else’s scriptures?

Every sentence on the exploration belongs to at least one claim below. Each says what kind of statement it is, what it rests on, what the evidence does not establish, and how far it was checked. Nothing here is a score, and none of it is a verdict on a belief or a theory.

Last checked 23 September 2026.

  • Source checked: 29
  • A judgement, not a fact: 18
  • Partly checked: 1
  • Presented as open: 1

If something here is wrong, misquoted, out of date or unfair, write to support@unknownoceans.com and give the claim number, which does not change.

What the question takes for granted

A historical question about how a canon was formed, and a theological one about what the arrangement means, asked about books that are also the complete scripture of another living tradition. The page describes the Christian decision and its costs, and lets Jewish sources say how Judaism reads the same books.

  • The Old Testament and the Hebrew Bible are the same books

    Contested

    The Jewish canon has twenty-four books in three divisions. The Protestant Old Testament has the same contents in another order; Catholic and Orthodox Old Testaments add books the Jewish canon does not include, and the Orthodox churches read the Greek.

  • The scriptures are someone else’s

    Contested

    Judaism holds them as its own complete scripture; Christianity holds them as its own as well, read with a second testament. Dabru Emet speaks of Jews and Christians seeking authority “from the same book”. The title’s “someone else’s” is the page’s framing, and the page argues both halves.

  • The church could have done otherwise

    Established

    Marcion proposed it and gathered a church that lasted for centuries, so the alternative was real and was taken up by some.

How the question is labelled

Claim: The Old Testament problem

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

Claim: Two testaments

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

The question

Claim: Three quarters of it is a Jewish library,

Kind
Present-day figure. A count, survey or report finding, as the named source gives it.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports · WEB

    World English Bible, verse-per-line editionword count of the WEB: Genesis to Malachi 575,237 words, Matthew to Revelation 174,747; the Old Testament is 77 per cent of a Protestant Bible, and about 79 per cent with the seven further books of the Catholic Old Testament

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

What this does not establish

By length, in one English translation. The Catholic and Orthodox Old Testaments include books that are Jewish writings but not in the Jewish canon.

Claim 1 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: read by Christians in a way Jews do not read it.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

Claim 2 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: A second-century teacher proposed cutting the Hebrew scriptures out, and the church refused.

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports

    Marcionites, in the Catholic Encyclopediaopening paragraph and account of his career

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: They rejected the writings of the Old Testament ... His final breach with the Roman Church occurred in the autumn of 144

What this does not establish

Marcion did not call the Hebrew scriptures false: he held them to be the revelation of a different god. His own churches continued for centuries.

Claim 3 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: That refusal shaped Christianity, and the way Christians then read those texts has a history with consequences.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

Summarises the passages on supersession and on Nostra Aetate below.

Claim 4 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: Open a Christian Bible and most of it was written by, for and about people who were not Christians and would not have recognised the category.

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports · WEB

    World English Bible, verse-per-line editionword count by book, as for the subtitle

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    Genesis to Malachi 575,237 words of 749,984: 76.7 per cent, so “most” holds by length, and more so with the seven further books of a Catholic Old Testament.

  • Supports

    Bible Canon, in the Jewish Encyclopedia§7

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: the prophetical canon must have been closed before 165 B.C. ; for the best of criticism is agreed that Daniel belongs to the Maccabean era

    Even the latest book of the Hebrew canon is from before Christianity.

Claim 5 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: This is so familiar that it stops looking odd.

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

Claim: It was not always familiar. There was a point at which it was a live proposal to remove all of it,

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports

    Marcionites, in the Catholic Encyclopediaaccount of his doctrine

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Once the Old Testament has been completely got rid of, Marcion has no further desire for change.

Claim 7 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: and the argument that followed decided what kind of religion Christianity was going to be.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

Claim 8 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

How it came to be there

Claim: How it came to be there

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

Somebody did propose cutting it, and lost

Claim: Somebody did propose cutting it, and lost

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports

    Marcionites, in the Catholic Encyclopediaaccount of his career

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: His final breach with the Roman Church occurred in the autumn of 144

Claim 10 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: Around 144, in Rome, a teacher named Marcion broke with the church over his claim that the God of the Hebrew scriptures was not the Father of Jesus.

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports

    Marcionites, in the Catholic Encyclopediaaccount of his career

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Marcion is said to have asked the Roman presbyters the explanation of Matthew 9:16-17, which he evidently wished to understand as expressing the incompatibility of the New Testament with the Old ... His final breach with the Roman Church occurred in the autumn of 144, for the Marcionites counted 115 years and 6 months from the time of Christ to the beginning of their sect.

  • Supports · ANF, tr. Peter Holmes

    Against Marcion, Book IAgainst Marcion I.19

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Now, from Tiberius to Antoninus Pius, there are about 115 years and 6-1/2 months. Just such an interval do they place between Christ and Marcion.

  • Supports · ANF, tr. Alexander Roberts and William Rambaut

    Against Heresies, Book 1, Chapter 27: the doctrines of Cerdo and MarcionAgainst Heresies I.27.2

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: But Jesus being derived from that father who is above the God that made the world

What this does not establish

The year is reckoned from the Marcionites’ own count of years since Christ; van Aarde gives 140 for Marcion’s work.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “Around 144 a teacher named Marcion argued that the God of the Hebrew scriptures was not the Father of Jesus.” 144 is the date of his break with the Roman church, reckoned from the Marcionites’ own count of years, not of when he began to argue; the page cited nothing for it. The Catholic Encyclopedia article is now cited.

Claim 11 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: Irenaeus, writing a few decades later, reports that he "mutilates the Gospel which is according to Luke",

Kind
Quotes a source. The words of a named text, checked against the source.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports · ANF, tr. Alexander Roberts and William Rambaut

    Against Heresies, Book 1, Chapter 27: the doctrines of Cerdo and MarcionAgainst Heresies I.27.2

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Besides this, he mutilates the Gospel which is according to Luke, removing all that is written respecting the generation of the Lord

  • Supports · ANF, tr. Alexander Roberts and William Rambaut

    Against Heresies, Book 3, Chapter 3: the succession of the bishops of RomeAgainst Heresies III.3.3

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate.

    Irenaeus wrote while Eleutherius was bishop of Rome.

  • Supports

    St. Irenaeus, in the Catholic Encyclopediaarticle text, on his life

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: sent him (177 or 178) to Rome with a letter to Pope Eleutherius concerning Montanism

Claim 12 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: cut the passages where Jesus calls the creator his Father, and removed from Paul’s letters the passages where Paul quotes the prophets as announcing the coming of the Lord.

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports · ANF, tr. Alexander Roberts and William Rambaut

    Against Heresies, Book 1, Chapter 27: the doctrines of Cerdo and MarcionAgainst Heresies I.27.2

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: setting aside a great deal of the teaching of the Lord, in which the Lord is recorded as most dearly confessing that the Maker of this universe is His Father. ... and also those passages from the prophetical writings which the apostle quotes, in order to teach us that they announced beforehand the coming of the Lord.

What this does not establish

What Marcion cut is known from his opponents; his own edition does not survive.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “and removed the Old Testament quotations from Paul.” Irenaeus does not say Marcion removed every Old Testament quotation: he says he removed the prophetic passages Paul quotes to show they announced the Lord’s coming.

Claim 13 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: He produced, in effect, the first Christian canon, and it was a short one.

Kind
What scholars argue. A report of what specialists argue, or where they disagree.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports

    The use and origin of the (Old and) New Testament as Christianity’s canonp. 5

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: the work of Marcion (140 CE) for the first time represents indications of a fixed, written canon. Therefore, Marcion is widely regarded as the ‘impetus’ or as the ‘catalyst’ of the canon idea

  • Supports · ANF, tr. Alexander Roberts and William Rambaut

    Against Heresies, Book 1, Chapter 27: the doctrines of Cerdo and MarcionAgainst Heresies I.27.2

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: furnishing them not with the Gospel, but merely a fragment of it. In like manner, too, he dismembered the Epistles of Paul

    One edited gospel and Paul’s letters.

What this does not establish

Whether Marcion’s list was the first canon or a spur to others is debated; van Aarde reports him as “widely regarded” as the catalyst.

Claim 14 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: The church rejected it, and in rejecting it committed to keeping a library that made its own position harder rather than easier.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

The rejection is documented; that it made the church’s position harder is the page’s judgement.

  • Supports · ANF, tr. Peter Holmes

    Against Marcion, Book IAgainst Marcion I.19

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Marcion’s special and principal work is the separation of the law and the gospel

Claim 15 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Christians read these texts as being about Jesus

Claim: Christians read these texts as being about Jesus

Kind
Describes a Bible passage. What a biblical passage says, in this page’s words. A fact about the text, separate from whether an event happened.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports · WEB

    World English Bible, verse-per-line editionLuke 24:27

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he explained to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

Claim 16 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: The New Testament quotes the Hebrew scriptures constantly, and often as pointing forward.

Kind
Describes a Bible passage. What a biblical passage says, in this page’s words. A fact about the text, separate from whether an event happened.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

What this does not establish

The New Testament authors mostly quoted the scriptures in Greek. Many uses are typology or moral teaching rather than prediction.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “The New Testament quotes the Hebrew scriptures constantly, and almost always as pointing forward.” “Almost always” is contradicted by the scholarship read: much New Testament use is typology or moral teaching, and most of Paul’s quotations are applied to the church (Moyise, summarising Hays).

Claim 17 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: Passages about a suffering servant, a coming king, a new covenant, are applied to Jesus, often directly and without argument, as though the application were obvious.

Kind
Describes a Bible passage. What a biblical passage says, in this page’s words. A fact about the text, separate from whether an event happened.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports · WEB

    World English Bible, verse-per-line editionMatthew 8:17; Matthew 21:4-5; Luke 22:20

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying, “He took our infirmities and bore our diseases.” ... “Tell the daughter of Zion, behold, your King comes to you, humble, and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.” ... “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

  • Qualifies · WEB

    World English Bible, verse-per-line editionHebrews 8:8, 8:13

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: In that he says, “A new covenant”, he has made the first obsolete.

    Hebrews argues the new covenant at length rather than simply applying it.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “are applied to Jesus directly and without argument, as though the application were obvious.” True of Matthew and of the Last Supper, not of Hebrews 8, which argues the new covenant at length, or of Acts 8:35, where Philip expounds Isaiah 53.

Claim 18 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: Paul is different: as Richard Hays has argued, few of his quotations are applied directly to Christ, and most to the church.

Kind
What scholars argue. A report of what specialists argue, or where they disagree.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

What this does not establish

Hays’s argument as Moyise reports it; Hays’s book was not read.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “” Added, because the passage generalised from Matthew’s practice to the whole New Testament.

Claim 19 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: Paul, who is a Jew writing about this, is not simple about it.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

  • Supports · WEB

    Romans 11, World English BibleRomans 11:1

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: I ask then, did God reject his people? May it never be! For I also am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Claim 20 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: He spends three chapters of Romans on the question of what has happened to Israel.

Kind
Describes a Bible passage. What a biblical passage says, in this page’s words. A fact about the text, separate from whether an event happened.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports · WEB

    World English Bible, verse-per-line editionRomans 9:2-4

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: that I have great sorrow and unceasing pain in my heart. ... For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brothers’ sake, my relatives according to the flesh ... who are Israelites

Claim 21 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: He says that some branches were broken off, and he also says that "God didn’t reject his people, whom he foreknew", and that "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Kind
Quotes the Bible. The words of a biblical text, in the translation named. That the text says it is a fact about the text, separate from whether an event happened.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports · WEB

    Romans 11, World English BibleRomans 11:2, 11:17, 11:29

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: God didn’t reject his people, whom he foreknew. ... But if some of the branches were broken off, ... For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Other readings

Whether Paul means that God’s covenant with Israel continues apart from Christ is itself disputed among interpreters and churches; the page now quotes him rather than settling it.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “He spends three chapters of Romans on the question of what has happened to Israel, and concludes that the covenant has not been withdrawn: "God didn’t reject his people, whom he foreknew."” Romans 11:2 is not Paul’s conclusion but his opening answer, and “the covenant has not been withdrawn” is an interpretation the chapter is argued over. The passage now gives his words on both sides, including the branches broken off (11:17-20) and the conclusion at 11:29.

Claim 22 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Jewish reading of the same texts is not a failure to notice

Claim: Jewish reading of the same texts is not a failure to notice

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

Claim 23 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: The Hebrew Bible is a complete scripture in Judaism, twenty-four books read through a rabbinic tradition of its own,

Kind
A church’s teaching. What the named tradition teaches, from its own documents. Evidence of what is taught, not proof that it is true, and not what every Christian holds.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.
Held by
Judaism

  • Supports

    Bible Canon, in the Jewish Encyclopedia§3, Contents and Divisions

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: The Jewish canon comprises twenty-four books, the five of the Pentateuch, eight books of the Prophets

  • Supports

    Bible Canon, in the Jewish Encyclopedia§3, quoting Deuteronomy Rabbah viii. 3

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: After completing the study of the entire Bible, one took up the Talmud, Halakah, and Haggadah

  • Supports · tr. Joshua Kulp

    Pirkei Avot 1:1Pirkei Avot 1:1

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Moses received the Torah at Sinai and transmitted it to Joshua, Joshua to the elders, and the elders to the prophets, and the prophets to the Men of the Great Assembly.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “The Hebrew Bible is a complete scripture in Judaism, read through a rabbinic tradition of its own,” The passage described Jewish reading with no Jewish source. It now cites the Jewish Encyclopedia and the Mishnah, and names the canon’s own count.

Claim 24 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: and the passages Christians read as predictions of Jesus are read there in their own contexts, about their own subjects, and where one is read of the Messiah, of a messiah still awaited.

Kind
A church’s teaching. What the named tradition teaches, from its own documents. Evidence of what is taught, not proof that it is true, and not what every Christian holds.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.
Held by
Judaism

  • Supports · tr. A. J. Rosenberg

    Rashi on Isaiah 53Rashi on Isaiah 53:3

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: So is the custom of this prophet: he mentions all Israel as one man

  • Supports · William Davidson Edition

    Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 98bSanhedrin 98b

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Apropos the Messiah, the Gemara asks: What is his name? ... And the Rabbis say: The leper of the house of Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi is his name, as it is stated: “Indeed our illnesses he did bear and our pains he endured

    The Talmud reads Isaiah 53:4 of the Messiah, in a discussion of when the son of David will come.

  • Supports · William Davidson Edition

    Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 98bSanhedrin 98b, Ulla

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Ulla says: Let the Messiah come, but after my death, so that I will not see him

What this does not establish

Two sources from a large tradition. Jewish interpretation of these passages is not uniform, which is the point of the qualification.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “and the passages Christians read as predictions are read there in their own contexts, about their own subjects.” Overgeneralised. Rabbinic tradition also reads some of the same passages messianically: the Talmud applies Isaiah 53:4 to the Messiah (Sanhedrin 98b).

Claim 25 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: Rashi, the eleventh-century commentator whose notes stand beside the text in almost every Jewish edition, reads the servant who suffers in Isaiah 53 as Israel, which the prophet speaks of "as one man".

Kind
Quotes a source. The words of a named text, checked against the source.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports · tr. A. J. Rosenberg

    Rashi on Isaiah 53Rashi on Isaiah 53:3

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: So is the custom of this prophet: he mentions all Israel as one man ... Here too (52:13), “Behold My servant shall prosper,” he said concerning the house of Jacob.

  • Supports

    Rashi on Isaiah 53Sefaria index description of the work

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · The cited passage was read, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Rashi lived in Troyes, France (1040-1105). Rashi’s commentary is an essential explanation of the Tanakh and resides in a place of honor on the page of almost all editions of the Tanakh.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “” Added so that the passage describes Jewish reading from a Jewish source, on the example Christians most often cite.

Claim 26 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: This is a genuine interpretative disagreement between two traditions, not one tradition missing something.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

Claim 27 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: Dabru Emet, a statement signed in 2000 by more than 170 rabbis and Jewish intellectuals, says that Jews and Christians "interpret the Bible differently on many points. Such differences must always be respected."

Kind
Quotes a source. The words of a named text, checked against the source.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

What this does not establish

A statement by its signers, not by Judaism as a body; it drew criticism as well as praise among Jews, as the site hosting it notes.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “The difference between reading these books as a Hebrew Bible and reading them as an Old Testament is the subject of the chapter cited here, whose text this page has not read.” The sentence rested on a chapter known only from its bibliographic record. A Jewish statement that says it in its own words replaces it.

Claim 28 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

What the two are to each other

Claim: What the two are to each other

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

How the two testaments are supposed to relate

Claim: How the two testaments are supposed to relate

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

Claim: Christian traditions have not agreed on this, and several have changed their minds.

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “Christian traditions have never agreed on this.” “Never agreed” hid the history: by the Catholic commission’s own account supersession was the standard view for centuries, and churches have since departed from it.

Claim 31 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: The range runs from reading God’s covenant with Israel as fulfilled and therefore superseded, through reading it as still in force alongside a second one, to reading it as one covenant all along with the membership widened.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

A summary of positions, not the teaching of any one church.

Other readings

The 2015 Vatican document holds a position that fits none of the three exactly: the covenant with Israel is unrevoked, and the New Covenant is its “affirmation and fulfilment”.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “The range runs from reading the Hebrew scriptures as a covenant fulfilled and therefore superseded, through reading them as a covenant still in force alongside a second one, to reading them as the same covenant all along with the membership widened.” The positions are about God’s covenant with Israel, not about the books; the old wording ran the scriptures and the covenant together.

Claim 32 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: The first, supersession, was the standard view by the Middle Ages.

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

What this does not establish

The Catholic commission’s account of its own tradition; no historian was read for it.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “” Added so that the supersessionist reading and the churches’ later repudiations are stated with dates, from the churches’ own documents.

Claim 33 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: A Vatican commission wrote in 2015 that a supersession theology setting "a Church of the Gentiles and the rejected Synagogue" against each other "is deprived of its foundations", and that God’s covenant with Israel "has never been revoked".

Kind
A church’s teaching. What the named tradition teaches, from its own documents. Evidence of what is taught, not proof that it is true, and not what every Christian holds.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.
Held by
Catholic

What this does not establish

The document describes itself as not magisterial. It also holds that there are not two paths to salvation (§35).

Claim 34 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) had said in 1987 that "Christians have not replaced Jews."

Kind
A church’s teaching. What the named tradition teaches, from its own documents. Evidence of what is taught, not proof that it is true, and not what every Christian holds.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.
Held by
Reformed

What this does not establish

A paper the 1987 General Assembly commended for study and reflection, not a confession. It speaks for one Reformed church, not the Reformed tradition as a whole.

Claim 35 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: The question is not academic. It determines whether Judaism is a religion that ended, a religion that continues, or the root of the thing doing the asking,

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

Claim 36 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: and different churches have answered all three ways at different times.

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

Claim 37 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

What the Old Testament is when read on its own

Claim: What the Old Testament is when read on its own

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

Claim: Read without the New Testament, these books are not an introduction to anything.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

Other readings

Judaism does not read them “on their own” either, but with the rabbinic tradition, as the passage above says.

Claim 39 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: They are a national literature: law, prophecy, history, psalms and proverbs, assembled over centuries.

Kind
What scholars argue. A report of what specialists argue, or where they disagree.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports

    Bible Canon, in the Jewish Encyclopedia§1, Origin of Idea

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: The idea of canonicity can only have been suggested at a period when the national literature had progressed far enough to possess a large number of works from which a selection might be made.

  • Supports

    Bible Canon, in the Jewish Encyclopediacontents; §3, Contents and Divisions

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: Development of the Pentateuchal Law. The Prophets. The Hagiographa. ... The Jewish canon comprises twenty-four books, the five of the Pentateuch, eight books of the Prophets ... and eleven Hagiographa (Psalms, Proverbs, Job

  • Supports

    Bible Canon, in the Jewish Encyclopedia§3, on Josephus

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: As historical books he considered all that narrated anything historical, and thus included Job.

  • Supports

    Bible Canon, in the Jewish Encyclopedia§6

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: It is thus generally agreed that in the middle of the fifth century B.C. the first part of the canon was extant.

  • Supports

    Bible Canon, in the Jewish Encyclopedia§7

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: the best of criticism is agreed that Daniel belongs to the Maccabean era

What this does not establish

The Jewish Encyclopedia dates the collection, not the composition of each book, and reflects scholarship of about 1900.

Other readings

“National literature” is a historian’s description. In Judaism these books are Torah and scripture.

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “assembled over roughly a millennium.” No source was cited for a thousand-year span, and the only source read dates the collection from before the fifth century BCE to after the Maccabean period, which carries “centuries” but not a millennium.

24 September 2026. Previously: “They are a national literature: law, chronicle, poetry, prophecy and a great deal of argument with God, assembled over centuries.” The source read calls the collection a national literature and divides it into the Pentateuchal law, the Prophets and the Hagiographa, naming Psalms and Proverbs and Josephus’ historical books. It does not describe the books as a great deal of argument with God, so the list is narrowed to what it names.

Claim 40 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: Reading them that way produces conclusions about what a passage meant to its own audience that differ from what it came to mean later. Both meanings are real and they are not the same object.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

What this does not establish

The Barton chapter this passage cites was not read; only its bibliographic record was.

Claim 41 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

The parting

Claim: The parting

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

What was lost when the traditions separated

Claim: What was lost when the traditions separated

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

Claim: The parting of Judaism and Christianity took place over generations, and scholars now dispute whether the ways ever finally parted at all.

Kind
What scholars argue. A report of what specialists argue, or where they disagree.
Review
Partly checked. Only part of the source could be read. What was not read is listed.

What this does not establish

Only the description of Becker and Reed’s volume was read, which carries its question (whether there was a definitive parting) and its period, not its arguments. No open copy of the volume was found (Unpaywall: closed).

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “The parting of Judaism and Christianity took place over generations and the sources for it are thin, partisan and mostly later.” Cited nothing. The Becker and Reed volume, whose title is “The Ways that Never Parted”, now carries the first clause and shows the question is disputed.

23 September 2026. Previously: “and scholars now dispute whether the ways ever finally parted at all. The sources for it are thin, partisan and mostly later. When it became impossible” Owner’s rule: only what a credible source verifies is shown. The removed sentence (retired as claim 45) judged the whole body of evidence for the parting, which no source read states, and was marked for a historian of late antique Judaism and Christianity.

Claim 44 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: When it became impossible to be both, what the people in the middle thought, and how many of them there were, is not recoverable.

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Presented as open. The page says this is unresolved, and the review found that it is.

What this does not establish

Estimates exist, for the first century at least; what is not recoverable is a count or a record of what those people thought.

Claim 46 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

What the arrangement has meant

Claim: What the arrangement has meant

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

Claim: Offered a scripture with no awkward inheritance, the church said no.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

A restatement of the Marcion passage.

Claim 48 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

What the reading cost

Claim: What the reading cost

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

Claim: A reading in which one people’s scriptures belong properly to somebody else has a history, and it is not a neutral one.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

Claim 50 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: The charge that the Jewish people collectively bore guilt for the crucifixion was made for centuries and used to justify what followed from it.

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

  • Supports

    We Remember: A Reflection on the Shoah§III, quoting John Paul II (1997)

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: erroneous and unjust interpretations of the New Testament regarding the Jewish people and their alleged culpability have circulated for too long, engendering feelings of hostility towards this people

  • Supports

    We Remember: A Reflection on the Shoah§III

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: But Christian mobs who attacked pagan temples sometimes did the same to synagogues, not without being influenced by certain interpretations of the New Testament regarding the Jewish people as a whole.

What this does not establish

The Catholic Church’s own acknowledgement. It attributes these interpretations to “the Christian world” rather than “the Church as such”, a distinction its critics have disputed.

Claim 51 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: In 1965 the Second Vatican Council addressed this directly.

Kind
Historical claim. A statement about the past that historical evidence can test.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.

Claim 52 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: It grants the older claim that "the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ" and then refuses the inference from it: "what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today".

Kind
A church’s teaching. What the named tradition teaches, from its own documents. Evidence of what is taught, not proof that it is true, and not what every Christian holds.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.
Held by
Catholic

  • Supports

    Nostra Aetate: Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions§4

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; ... still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today.

Claim 53 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: It still calls the Church "the new people of God", and says in the same sentence that the Jews "should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures"; and the church "decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone".

Kind
A church’s teaching. What the named tradition teaches, from its own documents. Evidence of what is taught, not proof that it is true, and not what every Christian holds.
Review
Source checked. The cited passage was read, and it says this.
Held by
Catholic

Corrected

23 September 2026. Previously: “The Jews "should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures", and the church” The quotation began mid-sentence and dropped the concession “Although the Church is the new people of God”, which is the council’s own language of replacement and bears directly on the page’s subject.

Claim 54 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: That a council had to say it in 1965 is the part worth sitting with.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

Claim 55 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Why the church kept the books

Claim: Why the church kept the books

Kind
Framing. Signposting. It asserts nothing a source could check.

Claim: Christianity holds that the God of Israel and the Father of Jesus are one God,

Kind
Statement of belief. What Christians named here hold by faith. Historical method cannot settle it either way.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.
Held by
Churches confessing the Nicene Creed

Claim 57 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: which is the proposition Marcion denied and the reason the library stayed.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

That Marcion denied it is documented; that it was the reason the books stayed is the case his opponents made.

  • Supports · ANF, tr. Peter Holmes

    Against Marcion, Book IAgainst Marcion I.19

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: I show ... that Christ Jesus is the revealer of none other god but the Creator.

Claim 58 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: Without it Jesus is a teacher who arrived from nowhere, and the tradition has consistently judged that too high a price for a tidier book.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

  • Supports · ANF, tr. Peter Holmes

    Against Marcion, Book IAgainst Marcion I.19

    Cited · Link answered, 19 October 2026 · Read in full, 23 September 2026

    The source reads: In the fifteenth year of Tiberius, Christ Jesus vouchsafed to come down from heaven

    Tertullian’s account of the Marcionite Christ, who appears without antecedents.

Claim 59 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

Claim: It is a costly choice and it was made deliberately. The church could have had a scripture with no awkward inheritance, no arguments about what a prophet meant, and no other people already reading it. It declined.

Kind
This page’s reading. A judgement the page makes from the evidence. Others read it differently.
Review
A judgement, not a fact. Reviewed for whether it is fairly put and follows from the checked claims. No source can confirm it.

Follows from the Marcion passage.

Claim 60 · checked 23 September 2026 · AI-assisted audit

What was read

  • Against Heresies, Book 1, Chapter 27: the doctrines of Cerdo and MarcionIrenaeus of Lyons, Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 1, New Advent · Against Heresies I.27 in full, tr. Alexander Roberts and William Rambaut, Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 1, New AdventThe cited passage was read, 23 September 2026 · Public domainNew Advent reads “most dearly confessing” in I.27.2, where the ledger quoted “most clearly”. The page does not quote that phrase.
  • Romans 11, World English BibleeBible.org, public domain · World English Bible, eBible.orgThe cited passage was read, 23 September 2026 · Public domain
  • Nostra Aetate: Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian ReligionsSecond Vatican Council, The Holy See · English text at vatican.vaRead in full, 23 September 2026 · Copyright Libreria Editrice Vaticana; quoted briefly
  • Against Marcion, Book ITertullian, Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 3, New Advent · Against Marcion, Book I, tr. Peter Holmes, Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 3, New AdventRead in full, 23 September 2026 · Public domain
  • Marcionites, in the Catholic EncyclopediaJ. P. Arendzen, Robert Appleton Company, New Advent · Catholic Encyclopedia (1910), article by J. P. Arendzen, New AdventRead in full, 23 September 2026 · Public domainAn old reference work. Its date for the break, autumn 144, is derived from the Marcionites’ own reckoning of 115 years and 6 months from Christ, which Tertullian reports.
  • Against Heresies, Book 3, Chapter 3: the succession of the bishops of RomeIrenaeus of Lyons, Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 1, New Advent · Against Heresies III.3 in full, tr. Alexander Roberts and William Rambaut, Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 1, New AdventThe cited passage was read, 23 September 2026 · Public domain
  • St. Irenaeus, in the Catholic EncyclopediaAlbert Poncelet, Robert Appleton Company, New Advent · Catholic Encyclopedia (1910), article by Albert Poncelet, New AdventRead in full, 23 September 2026 · Public domain
  • The use and origin of the (Old and) New Testament as Christianity’s canonAndries G. van Aarde, HTS Teologiese Studies 68(1) · HTS Teologiese Studies 68(1), 2012, PDF from the journalRead in full, 23 September 2026 · CC BY 4.0 (AOSIS)Van Aarde dates Marcion to 140, or 135 to 140, in two places; the page keeps “around 144” for the break with Rome.
  • World English Bible, verse-per-line editioneBible.org, public domain · World English Bible, eBible.org verse-per-line edition (eng-web_vpl), used for word counts and searches of the New TestamentRead in full, 23 September 2026 · Public domain
  • Can we use the New Testament in the way which the New Testament authors use the Old Testament?Steve Moyise, In die Skriflig 36(4) · In die Skriflig 36(4), 2002, pp. 643-660, PDF from the journalRead in full, 23 September 2026 · CC BY (AOSIS); quoted brieflyMoyise summarises Richard Hays, Echoes of Scripture in the Letters of Paul (1989); Hays’s book itself was not read.
  • Bible Canon, in the Jewish EncyclopediaEmil G. Hirsch, Ludwig Blau, Kaufmann Kohler and Nathaniel Schmidt, Funk and Wagnalls · Jewish Encyclopedia (1901 to 1906), “Bible Canon”, by Emil G. Hirsch, Ludwig Blau, Kaufmann Kohler and Nathaniel Schmidt, jewishencyclopedia.comRead in full, 23 September 2026 · Public domainAn old reference work, written by Jewish scholars; its critical dating reflects scholarship of about 1900.
  • Pirkei Avot 1:1Mishnah, tr. Joshua Kulp (Mishnah Yomit), Sefaria · Mishnah, Pirkei Avot 1:1, tr. Joshua Kulp (Mishnah Yomit), Sefaria APIThe cited passage was read, 23 September 2026 · CC BY
  • Rashi on Isaiah 53Rashi, tr. A. J. Rosenberg (Judaica Press), Sefaria · Rashi on Isaiah 53:1 and 53:3, tr. A. J. Rosenberg (Judaica Press), Sefaria API, with Sefaria’s index description of the workThe cited passage was read, 23 September 2026 · CC BY
  • Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 98bWilliam Davidson Talmud, Sefaria · Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 98b, William Davidson Edition (English), Sefaria APIThe cited passage was read, 23 September 2026 · CC BY-NC; quoted briefly
  • Dabru Emet: A Jewish Statement on Christians and ChristianityNational Jewish Scholars Project, Institute for Christian and Jewish Studies (now the Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies) · Text and background at icjs.orgRead in full, 23 September 2026 · Copyright; quoted briefly
  • "The Gifts and the Calling of God are Irrevocable" (Rom 11:29): A Reflection on Theological Questions Pertaining to Catholic-Jewish RelationsCommission for Religious Relations with the Jews, The Holy See · English text at christianunity.va, dated 10 December 2015Read in full, 23 September 2026 · Copyright Libreria Editrice Vaticana; quoted brieflyThe document says of itself that it is not a magisterial document or doctrinal teaching of the Catholic Church.
  • A Theological Understanding of the Relationship Between Christians and JewsPresbyterian Church (U.S.A.), commended for study by the 199th General Assembly; text at Dialogika, Council of Centers on Jewish-Christian Relations · Text at Dialogika (ccjr.us)Read in full, 23 September 2026 · Copyright; quoted brieflyCommended to the church for study and reflection by the 199th General Assembly (1987), not adopted as a confession.
  • The Ways that Never Parted: Jews and Christians in Late Antiquity and the Early Middle AgesAdam H. Becker and Annette Yoshiko Reed, Mohr Siebeck · Crossref record and publisher description for doi:10.1628/978-3-16-158695-8Abstract only, 23 September 2026Only the description was read, not the volume. Crossref dates this DOI 2020; the volume was first published in 2003.
  • How many Jews became Christians in the first century? The failure of the Christian mission to the JewsDavid C. Sim, HTS Teologiese Studies 61(1/2) · HTS Teologiese Studies 61(1/2), 2005, PDF from the journalRead in full, 23 September 2026 · CC BY (AOSIS); quoted briefly
  • We Remember: A Reflection on the ShoahCommission for Religious Relations with the Jews, The Holy See · English text at christianunity.va, dated 16 March 1998Read in full, 23 September 2026 · Copyright Libreria Editrice Vaticana; quoted briefly